Scaling On Chain Financial Apps

Algorand came on the scene in 2017 with the promise of a blockchain that would bring radical improvements to the scale and speed of blockchain transactions. The Algorand team has delivered in a big way with blockchain infrastructure that can scale to billions of users, tens of millions of daily transactions, all with negligible transaction fees. And, unlike first-generation blockchains, Algorand’s platform was designed from the ground up to address the unique requirements of global payment applications and financial networks. These are critically important attributes for the stablecoin ecosystem as large financial institutions around the world begin to add digital dollars to the mix of products and services offered to businesses and clients. Just a few days ago, USD Coin (USDC), the fastest growing, fully-reserved and regulated digital dollar stablecoin surpassed $2.3 billion marketcap, representing nearly 500% growth YTD and over $130B in on-chain transaction volume since launching just two years ago.

To keep pace, Centre Consortium, which oversees the USDC standard and protocol, announced a framework for Multichain USDC. Earlier this month, Algorand became the second public blockchain to be certified by Centre as an officially supported chain for USDC. With the launch, Algorand brings over 1,000 tps and transaction fees of 1/20th of a cent to the USDC ecosystem. In conjunction with the announcement, Circle announced broad support for USDC on Algorand in its global financial account and platform services for businesses around the world.

This week, it's with great pleasure that we bring Algorand founder, Turing Award winner, and MIT professor, Silvio Micali, to the show to share his thoughts on the state of the Algorand blockchain the major innovations coming down the road, including the implications for the use of USDC. We're also excited to have Algorand CEO, Steve Kokinos, on to discuss the incredible trajectory of the organization, the fast-growing global community, and industry and use-case priorities as we round out 2020, what's shaping up to be an amazing year for stablecoins and proof-of-stake blockchains.

[00:00:09] Hello and welcome to the Money Movement, a show where we explore the issues and ideas in this brave new world of digital currency and blockchains. This is our 20th episode of The Money Movement, which is which is exciting. And we've got a great episode, which we can talk about in a second. But I actually first want to mention that next week, the 21st episode of The Money Movement, we're gonna do an ask me anything. And so if you're interested in asking me anything, that's your opportunity. You can tweet at us and we're going to be promoting in a few places. And that'll be a live M.A next week, next Thursday at 1:00 p.m. same time, same place. So this week we're talking about USDC meets Amarant. [00:01:02][53.3]

[00:01:04] For those that aren't familiar, Algorand came on the scene in twenty seventeen. It's a blockchains project that offered the promise of bringing radical improvements around the scaling and speed of blockchains transactions with a particular eye on financial applications. And really, the Albritton team has delivered in a very big way with blockchains infrastructure infrastructure that can scale even to potentially billions of users, tens of millions of daily transactions, all with a next to negligible transaction fees. And I think unlike first or second generation Blockchains, Adrienne's platform was designed from the ground up to address many of the unique requirements of global payment applications and financial networks. And these are, I think, in our in our minds, really critically important attributes for the stablecoin ecosystem as large financial institutions, global consumer, fintech firms and others around the world begin to add digital dollars to the mix of products and services that they're bringing to businesses and clients around the world. So in pursuit of of of the sort of ultimate goal of of USDC being a standard protocol that can be used really, really widely as the digital dollar on the Internet Center Consortium, which governs the USDC protocol and standards and a variety of facets of the operation of USDC, embarked on a multi chain USDC framework earlier this year. And at the time we announced that Circle was entering into a partnership with our brand to brain USDC to the brand blockchains last week, I believe, or very recently centric consortium announced that our brand had become an official chain supporting USDC and Circle today, in fact, rolled out broad support for the brand blockchains in our platform services offerings, including the ability to seamlessly do swaps across a theory and based USDC and brand based USDC, which is really key for for interoperability. So this week we're going to talk about that. We're going to talk about Ahlgren. We're going to talk about Stablecoins and the future of financial applications on Blockchains. And it's really with great pleasure that we're bringing Algorand founder, Turing Award winner and M.I.T. Professor Silvio Micali to the show. He's going to share his thoughts around the state of Allaire and Blockchains and major innovations coming down the road, including the implications of having a digital download like USDOT on our brand. And then we're gonna turn to our and CEO, Steve Kokinos to discuss the trajectory of Allaire and the organization, the global community, the ecosystem, the industry, and use case applications that are that are we're seeing for Algorand in 2020 and beyond and really what's shaping up in this case. So with that, we're very excited to welcome Silvio. It's great to see you, OK. [00:04:16][192.0]

silvio: [00:04:17] Thank you very much. Jeremy, great to talk to you and your audience today. [00:04:21][4.0]

[00:04:22] Excellent. Well, I. I love to start with, you know, an origin story. And obviously, I think people have many people have followed your career and your history, but maybe just for for for folks here who haven't. Just very briefly, a little bit about your history and how you came to fall in love with crypto and and pursue. Pursue everand. [00:04:47][24.9]

silvio: [00:04:48] Oh, great. That's all. I thought that I'm not like a computational theorist and pouffe systems, logical schemes. And then have a long. In long time interest in cryptography and I've been a distributor of computation and then evolved into economic mechanisms and so suddenly had some Allaire. Finally, I heard about an old crypto in the same cell of Malcolm Dolgov from my case. [00:05:16][27.9]

silvio: [00:05:17] But the cryptocurrency stays a while that he's really at the intersection of all of his fields of cryptography and. And that distributor computation and economic mechanism, which is a part I. So let me learn about it. I started learning about it and I confirmed that it was in all a great idea. And but somehow the solution seemed to me quite inelegant. And because of somehow criticizing is always easy and constructive thing. It's a bit harder. I decided to lock myself up for a few months and try to see if I could afford my Hattan Varina and design things in a different way. [00:05:54][37.4]

jer: [00:05:56] Well, that's that's that's that's fabulous. And I think this synthesis of so many different, I think pretty significant and advanced fields is is part of what makes this all interesting. I know for the legal profession, this is a very challenging and interesting area and certainly within fiduciary industries as well. Let's talk a little bit about that breakthrough when you went off for a few months. What was the core breakthrough of Albarran? And, you know, in layman's terms, what was the what were the the elegant solutions that you were trying to bring forward as compared to the inelegance solutions perhaps that you encountered? [00:06:35][38.9]

silvio: [00:06:36] Well, you know, they are this in a blockchains not to make sure of it unless the database cannot be corrupted. But the way this fight is that to decide the next block, who should decide and how? And now does it become a common knowledge and not just an individual choice. And so so somehow everybody has in mind that a. a long deluded causes are somehow I pain to my block to the longest chain of the day that I see assume the longest chain of the C as a block of it that was produced by youth. Jeremy. I have paid them my block to yours. This is interpreted like a vote that your block is correct and somebody appends and a block to mine. She's voting that my block on your block are both correct and so that these are kind of a longer process. And the more time passes, you know, the longer a chain becomes and somehow gives you confidence of these blocks are going to remain in the chain. So what I felt is say I understand the vis a vis the dilution and the drip, drip, drip. And the consensus is necessary to be fast. But I decided that can't we just bite the bullet and agree on one block in such a fashion that you would never have to come back? So I gave the block and that now becomes everybody, not only me, but even entire community. The Gays on the Block the block experiment. Next block, we are them, the block, next block. And every time we add that a block, we know that we have not to look for the longest chain because if it is only one chain. And so I decided in my in my adventures in distributer computational land, it was the quintessential of on cold and Byzantine agreement, no adjectives that modify it and make it weaker. But the original Byzantine agreement and I say, why don't we buy something, agree on on each block? Well, the problem was that at the time they forced this algorithm for our practical application, allowed maybe twelve participants. And if we want to add all blockchains like a WI for millions or billions, all participants forget it. Victor was not getting the deal. So they need was to invent from scratch a new Byzantine game protocol with scale up at the level. And so that, I would say, is really the fundamental thing. And and they haven't. Well, and if I cannot, you. You need the second one is to have some out to form committees. We tried somehow where committee members are not selected by me, Evan for BDO, for Circle, for somebody else, but actually run normally self selected to be part of this agreement. And of course, if you say you're randomly self select, that looks bad, because if I'm a bad person, I self-selecting myself all the time, not randomly. And so and the idea is to use this to verify a random function to get on top of it. There is a cryptographically fair selection in which I can select them myself. And if I am by running a cryptographically fair individual lottery and is like a slot machine whose laveaux, you can put it once, and if I win, I have a winning ticket proving to the entire world that I am a member of the committee to approve the next block. And if I don't win, I have nothing to show for and therefore my opinion is ignored. [00:10:10][213.4]

jer: [00:10:11] And so that essentially is the basis of it. You get to this winning ticket if you get it and if you get it to you propagate it together with your opinion up or down about the block and white versus secure because the polling believable has a slot machine is a microsecond. It is distributed because anybody was a one. I'll go one. Pocan can participate. Thomas Slaughter is so simple. It is so and messes up also secure because and all. If I'm not the person he wants to corrupt some alber members of the committee, he doesn't even know who should be corrupt of isolating Shingai. [00:10:46][34.9]

[00:10:46] This other guy in power is he doesn't know because the Wiedner is going to be the winner of the loader is nobody can predict who is going to win. Voloder and so. Once a week propagate the winning ticket, then they'll be known about the book. I can become known to be a member of this committee. I can be corrupted. [00:11:04][18.2]

[00:11:05] But at this point, it's too late to corrupt me because my winning ticket, not being above the block, are vitally propagated over network and vivify. Read the best that I can not put it back in the boto no more than a government can put a buck in a bottle. A message Obali propagated by WikiLeaks. So the system is secure because it beforehand that you don't know whom to corrupt and ex-post after effects is a bit too late. About. [00:11:27][22.5]

jer: [00:11:29] I remember you giving a talk at the M.I.T. Bitcoin Expo or I where they call. [00:11:36][6.4]

jer: [00:11:36] And I was very struck by what you were outlining and it and it struck me as at the time, you know, what I felt like was one of the best ideas out there. And know, here we are today. [00:11:52][16.0]

[00:11:53] And the Allaire and Blockchains went from that that set of Genesis ideas into into a living, breathing, operating, secure, global tamperproof transaction and data storage machine, which is which is pretty remarkable. Maybe just talk talk for a minute about, you know, what is the capacity of of our brand today? Kind of, yeah. A couple of years and then a lot of significant R&D and work and launching and now getting an ecosystem built. You know, what is the state of of the Allaire and Blockchains today? [00:12:28][35.0]

silvio: [00:12:30] Well, the state of ALGOL Blockchains is strong. So it becomes stronger to. So, first of all, we we actually do scale and that not only we scale a number of transactions, but actually scaling back consensus. So everybody who is willing to participate to the consensus will lower the bar of participation solo. But anybody was an interest and was one I'll go can actually participate the consensus when these scales and these and also a number of transactions. [00:13:00][30.6]

silvio: [00:13:01] But I want to make sure the visa transactions so unchain globally and honestly counted like some transaction off chain that I can imagine that I can do trillions of them. [00:13:12][11.0]

[00:13:13] In that moment, I want to say that the visa transaction that actually are sophisticated, not just the ordinary payment. I mean, there is nothing so simple about the unauthorized payment. As you know, particularly it is internationally and and so on, so forth. And about the visa, actually, layer one Smart contract. So I know that a payment is not as simple and as secure as I know that a payment is not going to ease up. [00:13:38][25.4]

silvio: [00:13:39] And you have an asset that they want. I have an asset that you want and we want atomically. Normally in unroot and under reasonable transaction, we we exchange our white assets without the veil. Povey anybody. Right. We thought shop at all. So we've had financial fiction. We can transact. I don't care if I say push of a button first to sending my asset, because I do know that unless you send mine yours, the assets never leaves in my hands. And so this is all also one transaction that the norm is the atomic grand. And a lot of these other go up as layer runs much go and try to lever up the same consensus level. [00:14:17][38.2]

jer: [00:14:18] So we the same security and we are native to to the protocol. And I think obviously we'll simplify a lot of things and that surveyed sees the Kurgan status and we are going to make it an even better. And our transactions are going to go multiplied by order of magnitude. In any way. And we are going to get an all quantum Brazilian's and we are going to get a lot of love. Good stuff. In Vegas for. [00:14:44][26.5]

jer: [00:14:46] It's fantastic. You know, as as I've heard you talk in the past about your vision for the use of Blockchains. You know, here, here, you know, I think we generally are talking about things like stablecoins payments, financial applications. [00:15:01][15.5]

jer: [00:15:02] And and we can talk about that. But this architecture that you've created, it's quite generalized and it can be used to to store verified data in a really wide range of use cases. What are what are some of the other uses for Allaire end that you're really excited about, whether they're already projects or just things that you think should be built or hide the salt then? [00:15:29][26.8]

silvio: [00:15:30] And first of all, I want to say that the democratization of finance continues to be a main goal and a shared goal. In fact, I believe of it not only we want to Boota Atabay and at the Mainzer, the reach of everybody of a man or woman in the street, very sophisticated financial tool because the first form of freedom is financial independence. And AMVETS is number one. But they said so. [00:15:57][27.2]

[00:15:57] Blockchains of our hotline is going to be announced soon. Some some country, which is, I would say known to you and to others, is going to use it to implement a national call list. [00:16:10][12.5]

silvio: [00:16:11] Okay. So another do not call me and and many of my blockchains some guarantees of what I said that what I did not say. And by the way, this also enables flips them aside because it is a very easy step to all to go from a do not call me or I want to be called. You can push my product to me, but it gets what I want to be paid. [00:16:30][19.7]

jer: [00:16:31] If you don't mind reading a great Youssouf, this public did. Right, and everybody can see it. It's perfectly verifiable. There's no manipulation or fraud. It's fantastic. [00:16:40][9.8]

silvio: [00:16:41] Exactly. And so finally, have a vein being got us always. The product was a model with the state. I want to be paid for my services to be given fair consideration to your product. And, um, and but now another example, I believe of it. [00:16:56][14.8]

silvio: [00:16:57] We are going to have a trust transaction. We are introducing them with a service of the joint effort to lower our community and but also somehow trust that communication. So strange enough. So I believe that the Blockchains probably was a don't ask me for details because of. We are going to keep it under the radar still, but we want to use it for doing certified email. So you want to say make sure of it. Not only sending email is easy, but I want to save it. I say that I know and I can prove it. He got it and that these elevates to a four and not end and they use it going to be so massive and the trick is going to be out to make sure it's such a massive use. Can you actually be out of room? Blockchains. So visit Blockchains is the gift that keeps on giving because no day passes by that we are gone. [00:17:52][55.6]

silvio: [00:17:54] Or you are Circle or a center and everybody else in the world thinks of new ways of applying that technology is fantastic. [00:18:02][8.0]

jer: [00:18:03] Yeah, well, I think was certainly one of the things that that has attracted me about the Blockchains base as a whole. And Algren specifically is the generalizability of this into so many different domains where verifiable information is is so key and it's such a fundamental challenge with the existing Internet architecture that we're all facing. Well. So I think, you know, as you know, from from our partnership and work together, sort of FYNN Tax banks, investment banks, central banks, you know, more significant financial institutions are getting involved. Scalability is of paramount concern. Security, of course, is of paramount concern. But, you know, what is the history of scalability been in Blockchains? And why are so many financial institutions excited about our brand from a scalability perspective? [00:18:59][56.8]

silvio: [00:19:01] But scalability, I think of it. Nobody wants to have a blockchains to just play with friends and follow me, I mean, of a block. My world is a larger place and we need a scalable blockchains to really interact with the world at large. But I was saying before, how do we interact? [00:19:18][16.2]

silvio: [00:19:18] It's not only a question of posting transactions about actually all of engaging. For instance, is smart contract I think of it as one of the main gifts of the blockchains and the scalability of Smart contract that has been for four years more in doubt and scalability of ordinary transactions and that or consensus. So I really believe that the world wants in all these smart contract of its scale. And and that these are going to be paramount. So not only just ordinary transaction, but as a smart contract site as well. And so we have actually architecting. And next year we are going to unveil our platform. By the way, the same way. But this platform is going to be as innovative in Zimet gantlets as our consensus protocol as being innovative. And so don't expect the usual, but expect something that really scales and inside smile. [00:20:22][64.0]

silvio: [00:20:23] And ma'am, remain several blocks will be delayed because that process as a map. Gorgeous, the blockchains continues and bismuth conscious eva-britt on track with the same scalability, security and decentralization. But I've got the rise of the algorithm. [00:20:40][17.3]

jer: [00:20:42] It's very exciting and I think, you know, one of the things that we've remarked on and, you know, a lot of what motivated us with USDC has been this base, this base expectation that eventually, you know, value exchange or trend or simple transactions. Right. Would become effectively ubiquitous and free and instant. But the real value is the probability of that. And if you can have a a trusted, verifiable, scalable kind of compute engine for these fiduciary trust applications, that is what really unleashes the business model, innovation in commerce and finance and and other things. You know, I guess an obvious question related to some of the announcements we've recently made is, you know, what role do you think USDC can play in the algorithm ecosystem? [00:21:33][50.8]

silvio: [00:21:34] Well, let me start with Elvis. Right. So somehow we are going to create time together and then and the rest of the community of all kinds of new assets. Right. And the people will enjoy using them and owning them. [00:21:47][12.7]

silvio: [00:21:47] And so on. So forth. But my first problem they're on to have is evaluating them, giving a value to these assets. And I really believe that an all USDC is going to play a major role in that, creating some Algorand reference system in which we actually, because everybody understands what the value of the dollar is and is going to be like, you want a flywheel in this very complicated mechanism. They said then we have actually our particular use and rely on all old USDC and stablecoins. And if you promise to give me before time, for instance, that I'm speaking, go Smart contract do believe and we agree with that really. And one of my major gifts of blockchains is going to be we think vate and all a very should not be gas in our Allaire smart contract, but that we should use stablecoins in order to somehow pay for execution of this thing. [00:22:50][62.6]

silvio: [00:22:51] Because very often people are say that content is expensive, the content is low and even worse, I cannot even budget for how much money should I put aside to try to make guess about Godshall. So we are going to I could explain it in a way in which we are going to hide waste away from the consumer and they can budget portability before as consider consequence execute. And so this is going to be a piece of a bigger architecture than we have in mind for Smart Square contract. [00:23:20][28.9]

jer: [00:23:20] We call them because they're going to be smart contract that for a change are going to be a really supply. I love it. I love it. [00:23:27][6.8]

jer: [00:23:28] I think, yes, you're using a stablecoin is the pricing mechanism on the on the compute and other other functions is is obviously I think will be very helpful for developers and the ecosystem. So maybe last question for you. I mean, you've moved at, I think, breathtaking speed. I know these things always sometimes as entrepreneurs, they take longer than we hope. They take a long time. But I feel like you guys have have executed really well and a really great pace and continue to, you know, very high level. What are the major advancements in the next two to three years? I think you've you've touched on on the smart, the Smart contract execution environment being on par in terms of scalability and speed. And I'm sure there's lots of other goodies. What else is is on the horizon that you think is is going to be a breakthrough? [00:24:21][52.5]

silvio: [00:24:23] So one thing is, is it is going to be a blockchains interoperability. So we have to understand that if we want to have it being a market to be the sole player in a market, you don't have a market. So there is going to be also market the blockchains and certain blockchains are doing better at doing certain things. We expect them to be happened because this very is a good and specialization. But does he want to service your particular assets? You may want to bring them to a blockchains where is going to be best served and you want to transfer very, very upset and be sure you can be transferred back both execution order that you can. You are welcome to join a blockchains and then leave there because you know that you can get up and leave anytime. And so some Alvis interoperability has been like in Blockchains in the world, an aspiration. And I believe that is very good to start with aspiration of aspirations. As humans, we should be as high as we can, but sooner or later, Lichenologist will sustain with aspirations over. Otherwise it becomes just a dream. Right, which is different from one aspiration. So Blockchains interloping ability, I think, is going to be what we are going to focus and to make sure that actually is going to be done in a distributed fashion because. Now, if I want to transfer, say, NASA, the form head chain to a blue chain. Two things are true. I trust the red chain because my asset is in bighead chain and I trust the Blockchains because I want to transfer him asset there. I don't know. I shall not trust anything else. And then like I now we are actually having this centralized the talking bridge in which was a trusted me who I am, John Doe. And I can guarantee you that to add to the blue chain that this asset that no longer exists on the head chain and is open for sale on the blockchains. As always, John Doe. So. Okay. If you don't like John Doe, we can make a free Jane Doe. John Doe and Jim die. [00:26:23][120.7]

[00:26:24] And. But. Oh, okay. [00:26:26][2.1]

silvio: [00:26:27] So why are these people. So what we want. Is that all you want to trust? Only the chain and nothing else. So we must find a way to express the will of an entire blockchains in some fashion that is understood the way of a blockchains. And in the end, it really is not up the winds. I'm not that way at a captive to anybody in particular. I think we need the base to ever really the marketplace of ethanol and where things were on. [00:26:54][27.1]

jer: [00:26:54] We're on the same page there. [00:26:55][0.8]

jer: [00:26:55] Our vision for multigrain USDC and USDC is a protocol that can that can work crusty's. Obviously, things like Tolkan Swaps, you know, you might depend on a governance mechanism or a regulated intermediary and there's some degree of trust there. But in the grand scheme, it is no substitute for what you're describing as well. Well, actually, Sylvia, this has been a wonderful conversation. I really want to thank. Likewise. Good to see you again. Thank you so much. [00:27:22][26.7]

[00:27:23] Thank you. [00:27:23][0.3]

jer: [00:27:26] So wonderful to have Silvio on. And I think animates this this technology really incredible ways and just so excited to see what comes out of his continued innovation at work as we go forward. I want to turn now to our brand CEO, Steve Kokkinos. Steve joins us to talk about the broader global community that is building around our brand, the industries in use cases that we're seeing right here now and what's shaping up in the year ahead. Welcome, Steve. [00:28:06][39.8]

steve: [00:28:07] Hey, thanks for having me, Jeremy. Great to. Great to be here. [00:28:10][2.3]

jer: [00:28:11] Excellent. Thank you. So let let's just start with some basics, you know, basics about how brand foundation basics around our brand and its commercial endeavors, you know, kind of. Is that today and kind of what's that trajectory look like. [00:28:26][15.3]

steve: [00:28:27] Yeah. So Algren launched a public permission list network about 15 months ago. [00:28:35][7.5]

steve: [00:28:36] And, you know, I think we've seen a lot of really good growth the way that the project is segmented. The Algren Foundation is responsible for governance of the public protocol, along with several other areas, continue to grow the community and focus their anger and anguish as the U.S. company is focused on the core development, really core research and development of the protocol itself and continues to be the core developer today and expect to continue to do that. And I think led by Silvio, we have really interesting research that's going on. [00:29:11][35.6]

steve: [00:29:12] And I think the response overall to the launch of the network and, you know, kind of continued technological innovation has been really great. We have nodes wrong on every continent except Antarctica in a very geographically distributed network. There's about 400 projects and companies that are building applications or supporting Al Grant today. And, you know, we've seen a lot of growth in terms of new wallets and users in response applications deploying on chain. We just crossed about five million users a few weeks ago and are seeing continued strong growth there. So, you know, really excited, I think, not only at the response of the tech, but excited to see people using what we built in really interesting ways. [00:29:57][44.8]

jer: [00:29:58] So that's a great Segway to USDC is now in on Chain Asset, on our grand on chain financial applications, I think are are huge. Let's talk a little bit about that. What are the kind of segments use cases? Where do you think USDC is going to get applied first and and where do you think it grows within the brand eco system? [00:30:19][21.3]

steve: [00:30:21] Yeah, well, you know, I think and, you know, as Sylvia mentioned, sort of the idea that, you know, you need a consistent unit of measure across assets. I think if you look at some of the key primitives that we've brought into layer one, you know, one is the HSA framework. [00:30:35][14.9]

steve: [00:30:36] So the ability to create assets in any form and manage them very flexibly, atomic transfers are another and layer one smart contract are another. So the ability to sort of execute anything that you need at the full speed of the chain. And I think that one of the priorities we've given is scalability, but not at the expense of either decentralization or security. And I think especially for financial applications, security is very important. And so when we look at, you know, financial applications, we think they take really a few different forms. One are new emergent applications, especially in kind of DFI area. We see you, SDC, as really the fuel behind and a lot of how those applications run. The second is we're starting to see a lot of interesting activity in traditional finance and also payments. And I think if you think about people starting to use crypto for more retail use cases, starting to use a higher transactional velocity, they need both kind of stablecoin like USDC, but also a platform like algorithms that actually can and was designed from the beginning to scale to hundreds of millions or billions of users without changing the performance characteristics. And then ultimately we're seeing, I think, other forms of currency emerge. The Marshall Islands recently announced that they're launching their national currency and our brand. So I think we're going to start to see more central bank digital currencies in essence. So I think if you take a step back, what we really think about is what forms of financial products are going to come next. As you bring these assets on chain. How do you transact around those assets? And I think really this idea of programable money that I know you've talked about a lot. It's something that we're really passionate about, and I think that the primitives we've created are uniquely well suited to enabling. And so we think about it both from kind of a technology standpoint, but also about the community that you need to build and the asset diversity that you need to have on chain to really make the ecosystem useful. [00:32:46][129.6]

jer: [00:32:48] That's really helpful, Steve. Let's maybe just drill in a little bit. You know, our brand has entered into a partnership with Center Consortium around becoming an official chain and then this partnership with Circle as well, around supporting our brand across our new suite of platform services. Why are these partnerships so important from your perspective? [00:33:09][21.4]

steve: [00:33:11] Well, I think they're important for, you know, a number of different different reasons, one, we believe really strongly that a Blockchains like Al Grand, you know, ultimately is a utility and should be a public utility that anybody can use. [00:33:25][13.3]

steve: [00:33:26] And, you know, I think one of the you know, if you think back, you know, today, if you think about, like, even just basic utilities that you have at your house, it's what water, electricity and probably used to be found. But today it's Internet, not phone anymore. We think the blockchains to move in that direction. And I think partnerships with projects like Center and Circle are really fundamental because I think one of the big differences in the decentralized world is that we can't build all of the things that are needed for a healthy ecosystem ourself. We need people to be going out and kind of moving forward in their own areas. And ultimately, that's where we want to focus is on innovation and technology and building the right tools and the right frameworks so that great applications can come and deploy. And I think definitely stable assets like USDC are of critical importance. And even example, Republic is a project that's launch an Al Grand recently, and they are a crowdfunding and sort of investment platform. Republic is a security token, registered security token in the US and they want to be able to issue dividends to their users via atomic swaps. And so they're going to do that by effectively issuing dividends using USDC on chain without grand. And that's going to be the way that they provide USD value for the investments people made. And I think that's like a really, I think, powerful example of how all these different things work together, where there's people taking advantage of the platform, people taking advantage of USDC and ultimately end users that are able to participate in financial applications that simply didn't exist in the traditional world. [00:35:11][105.1]

jer: [00:35:11] The idea that you could own an asset and it's like, you know, screaming out dividends to you instantly just into your wallet. It's pretty powerful. I love that. I love that. I think it's digital securities, I think are certainly a sweet spot for you guys. And hopefully we'll play a big part in that as well. I think related to Eco-System, obviously, you know, other blockchains projects have varying levels of history. Some have been around since, you know, well, Bitcoin for a very long time, theorems since 2015. You guys launched last year. So there's obviously these arcs and people build communities around them. You know, right now, obviously defines is really hot and theorems, you know, strained under under the under the weight of those applications. And that's that's making usability for a variety of applications challenging. Do you see this as a window of opportunity for Albarran to to kind of step out and get in front of not just the five developers, but developers on Blockchains in general to say, hey, you know, third generation Blockchains are here, you don't have to wait for Ethereum to what's your what's your take on that for sure? [00:36:23][71.9]

[00:36:24] I mean, I think that definitely the theory has built a really interesting community and clearly, you know, as a variety of applications, I think at the same time, if you're trying to build a business and you're building it on a blockchains where you know what it's going to cost you to run that application and what is going to cost your users to transfer assets around is unknown. [00:36:48][24.1]

steve: [00:36:49] You know, I think that's a very difficult thing to do. So I think as far as sort of existing applications, you know, definitely I think we've we've tried to tailor what we have in a way that we think would be attractive. And I think, you know, scalability and performance are important. We think decentralization is also very important as well. We see a lot of a lot of projects that have made decentralization compromises in order to achieve performance. Know, we don't feel that's the right way to go about it. [00:37:17][27.5]

steve: [00:37:18] At the same time, I guess the other thing we think about, though, is the constraints that a lot of the first or second generation platforms pose have kept people from being able to deploy applications of scale in a meaningful way. So if you look at properties and example deployed recently, an algorithm, they brought over four million users that they migrated from permissions chain. And the reason they added a provision setting wasn't because they wanted privacy. It was because there were simply no other way that they could get the performance needed. But they really favor transparency and being on a public network. And I think what's really exciting about an application like that is that it's really millions of new users to the crypto community that weren't in it before and are excited about their application, which is about loyalty, loyalty points and. Earning money for using different applications. So I think it's a really cool idea, but I think from our perspective, when you look at the size of the crypto community today, even though it's vibrant, it's still very small compared to the remainder of the world. There's only probably a couple of hundred thousand developers that build Blockchains applications today, but there's almost 20 million built mobile and web applications. The same is true in the you know, in terms of just retail consumers out in the world. There's billions that need to be introduced to digital money and decentralized systems. And I think largely the way they'll do that is through interesting applications that deliver value to them. And so for us, what we're really focused on, more than necessarily worrying too much about what goes on in the existing crypto community is how do we encourage new applications that can generate scale quickly and really show the power of a blockchains platforms and decentralized platforms and introduce people to digital money at a scale in ways that haven't really been done before. And so I think that's when you look at the developer tools we've built in the way we've approached the technology. It's really kind of with those things in mind. So I think definitely, by the way, that Defy World is super interesting right now. I think what's fascinating about it is when you look at how DEFI is starting to approach things like governance and financial applications, what we're seeing now are really financial tools and applications that have never existed before and B, couldn't have existed in a traditional setting. And so to me, that's definitely exciting is something we want to see more of an algorithm for sure. I think it's kind of part of a bigger, bigger story. [00:39:56][158.4]

jer: [00:39:57] Yeah, we I think we share a lot of those views. Maybe last question, which is, you know, I always ask people to put on their their vision cap or their future future, future looks, you know, get given the conversations that you're in. Given what you're seeing that's happening, given the interest from a lot of different types of players in the industry here. [00:40:19][22.0]

jer: [00:40:20] What do you think is going to surprise people over the next, say, 24 months? It relates to the last. The last question about, you know, you know, mainstream apps, things like that. But you know what? What is going to surprise us? And that, you know, obviously I'm thinking that think of that in the context of of applications that might get built on our brand or or use things like USDC. But but you know what? What what are the things that we should be on the lookout for? [00:40:47][26.7]

steve: [00:40:48] Well, I think it's an interesting time. [00:40:49][1.3]

steve: [00:40:50] You know, I know a few years ago, if you look at what was going on during sort of the Bitcoin boom days, you know, it was very retail driven and I think was a very early time in the market. I think two years on. I think what's been encouraging to us is the seriousness that large institutions and the resources, the large institutions are putting into really thinking about long term investments around digital money and blockchains and digital assets that countries are are doing the same. And so I think the seriousness of those discussions and I think the likelihood of that helping generate scale will probably surprise a lot of people as it starts to really hit the market. At the same time, I'm not sure it should really be a surprise. You know, China has announced they're issuing an issue, a central bank, digital currency they're being very aggressive about. [00:41:50][60.3]

steve: [00:41:50] It was really recently announced. There's BSN, which is going to be the Chinese Blockchains network. Grand is one of five public chains that will be permitted by the Chinese government to operate in China. And so I think what we're starting to see now are kind of the early signs that, you know, some of the scale and some of the bigger applications are going to come. And I think that that's an indicator of what we'll start seeing in other parts of the world as well. So I think, you know, kind of the underpinnings are being built today. And I feel pretty confident that we're going to see, you know, not just millions, but probably, you know, hundreds of millions of users using the kinds of applications that we're building in the coming years. [00:42:31][40.7]

jer: [00:42:33] We are we are excited to see that as well. And I think we we we share your optimism for the next that for the next couple of years and on that as well. Steve, thank you so much for joining. And, of course, for the work that we're doing together. Really excited to see what transpires from that. [00:42:49][16.7]

steve: [00:42:50] Thanks so much for having Jeremy. You know, we love working with you guys, and it's always great to see you. [00:42:55][4.6]

[00:42:55] Excellent. All right. Have a great day, Steve. [00:42:57][1.4]

[00:42:58] Good to see you. Thank you. It's great to connect with with leaders that are innovating in the fundamentals of this technology. Very, very excited to see what developers are going to do with this. As I noted earlier, we launched today a whole guide to using our brand with USDC for convertibility between USDC on our brand and a theorem. And so some pretty cool stuff out there. And we're expecting to see a lot of developer activity, as noted at the start of the episode next week. We're gonna do our first money movement, A and A.. So spread the word virus questions, fire me questions. Be excited to do that. [00:43:42][44.7]

[00:43:43] And I hope but hope to hear from as many of you as possible. So until next time. Stay well. Stay safe and stay informed. [00:43:43][0.0]


Steve Kokinos
CEO, Algorand
Silvio Micali
Founder, Algorand